Skip to main content Skip to main navigation Skip to footer

Interview

What Impact does Further Training Have – Beyond the Knowledge you’ve Gained? “It changes the way you view organisations”:

In the podcast episode "Systemic Organisational Transformations", former participants Julia and Katrin talk about the new perspectives they’ve gained, what they do differently now, and why change sometimes requires one thing above all else: time.

There are training courses from which you primarily gain new specialist knowledge and a certificate. And there are training courses that leave you looking at organisations, collaboration and leadership in a different light. What such a shift in perspective might look like is the focus of a special episode of the podcast ‘Wenn heut schon morgen wär …’.

Frank Hörhold and Gabriele Dreilich, who jointly lead the „Systemic Organisational Transformation“ training programme at the University of Applied Sciences Potsdam, speak in the episode with former participants Julia and Katrin. They look back on their reasons for taking part, key insights from the modules and how they have applied what they learnt to their day-to-day working lives.

Practical experience meets a theoretical foundation

Julia works as a freelance trainer in the fields of sales and diversity. In her work, she had already supported numerous change processes: from cultural transformation to the introduction of new software. In doing so, she realised that her work often went far beyond traditional training. “I already had practical experience, but I was still lacking a theoretical foundation,” she explains. The further training gave her the opportunity to contextualise her previous experiences, recognise new interconnections and further develop her professional profile.

Katrin, too, has long been involved with organisational change in her role as a trainer and HR developer. She was particularly interested in the interplay between people’s needs and the organisation’s requirements: “It’s not just about what people need to be able to do a good job. We also need to ask what organisations need so that people can work well there.”

She was also impressed by the openness of the programme’s approach. As a participant in the first cohort, she was able to contribute her own questions and needs and play an active role in shaping the shared learning spaces.

Viewing organisations as a whole

A key insight shared by both participants is that changes cannot be viewed in isolation. Anyone working on structures or processes also influences the culture, collaboration and the people within the organisation.

Katrin describes it as a series of interconnected cogs: if something is changed in one place, something else automatically shifts elsewhere. That is why it is important to keep a broad perspective and ask what impact a decision has on other areas of the organisation.

Julia expands on this perspective with a triad comprising people, organisation and environment. Impulses for transformation can arise at any of these points – yet their effects are always felt throughout the entire system.

It is precisely this connection that shapes the training programme. Organisational development, modern models, processes and structures are not considered in isolation from the people involved. Equally important are issues of attitude, communication and the professional support of change processes.

Change requires patience

It was not a single method or a specific module that changed Katrin’s perspective. Rather, the learning process throughout the entire training programme was decisive for her.

“I’ve become more patient – with myself, with organisations and with the pace at which they move,” she says. What may seem like the logical next step from a technical perspective is not necessarily the right step for an organisation or its staff. Sustainable transformation cannot be arbitrarily accelerated (or, alternatively, controlled).

In each module, she gained new perspectives and was able to re-examine her previous assumptions. Gradually, this led to a more nuanced view of the possibilities and limitations of change.

Psychological safety is not just a „nice-to-have“

For Julia, the training course has, above all, sharpened her awareness of psychological safety. She was already familiar with the concept, but it took on a new significance in the context of teams and organisations.

Today, in many of the situations described, she recognises more quickly when psychological safety is lacking or has been compromised. For her, it is not merely a pleasant bonus, but an essential prerequisite for collaboration and the ability to adapt to change.

For psychological safety to develop, it requires attention, reflection and, in turn, time. People must be able to ask questions, express uncertainties and address mistakes without having to fear negative consequences. This foundation is particularly important, especially during change processes.

Learning sometimes also means unlearning

Continuing professional development does not merely teach new models and methods; it also encourages people to question familiar ways of doing things. Katrin refers to this as ‘unlearning’: organisations often fall back on familiar routines, particularly when under pressure – even if these no longer suit the current situation.

That is why it is worth taking a closer look: Why do we do things the way we do? What purpose did an existing structure serve? Is it still helpful under today’s conditions? And what might we need to let go of so that something new can emerge?

Change does not mean fundamentally rejecting everything that already exists. Rather, it is about consciously deciding what still works and what needs to be rethought.

No one-size-fits-all approach works for every organisation

What would an organisation need to look like to remain viable and capable of adapting in the long term? The podcast’s guests also address this question.

Julia advocates a people-centred and diversity-sensitive approach to designing change processes. Staff should be involved as early as possible. At the same time, organisations should not adopt current trends uncritically simply because a particular issue is currently receiving a great deal of attention. The key, she says, is to adapt them to their own context: ‘What does my organisation really need?’

Katrin also warns against off-the-shelf solutions. Not every method suits every organisation, and not every approach suits every process. Before introducing new structures or ways of working, organisations should consider their value creation, their working methods and their specific requirements.

Gabriele Dreilich sees network organisations as a possible model for the future. They are better able to reflect complexity and facilitate collaboration across traditional boundaries. At the same time, even within flexible structures, people need guidance, a sense of belonging and a shared understanding of what their work contributes to.

Frank Hörhold adds another crucial factor: future-proof organisations must be able to react quickly to new demands and complex developments without losing sight of their value creation. 

Exchange as an important part of learning

What advice would Julia and Katrin give to future participants? Their recommendation is clear: approach the training programme with an open mind and a sense of curiosity, bring your own real-life case studies to the table, and actively engage in discussions within the group.

Working on real-life issues from their day-to-day professional lives helped them to apply theoretical approaches to specific situations. Equally important was engaging with the different perspectives and experiences of the other participants.

“A training course becomes even more valuable through the exchange with the other participants,” Julia sums up. As well as gaining new insights, this can lead to the formation of networks and contacts with people who remain as sparring partners even after the course has ended.

The full podcast episode is available here .

„Systemic Organisational Transformation“ training programme

This part-time professional development programme combines sound theory with practical experience. Participants learn to understand organisations from a systemic perspective, to classify different organisational models, and to plan, communicate and implement change processes professionally.

The next intake runs from the 12th of November 2026 to the 16th of April 2027. Full details can be found on our website: Continuning Education.

Contact

ZEW – Centre for Further Education

Room 4.1.10
( )